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Forum - View topicNEWS: Kirawaretai no Manga Adaptation Ends After Allegations of Tracing Other Manga
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13570 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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Article:
O.K., if Isshiki had asked Oda about tracing or using Oda's manga art as a guidw while also properly crediting Oda, then maybe "Kirawaretai no" might not have been cancelled manga wise. Last edited by Kadmos1 on Wed Feb 09, 2022 2:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Kougeru
 Posts: 5533 |
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crediting someone doesn't make it okay to copy their work... Also I find it weird to say "allegations" when the he literally admitted to tracing |
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sarusa
Posts: 92 |
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It's amusing that tracing art will get you instantly cancelled in Japan, but stealing your entire plot with minor dialogue tweaks is considered just fine. This LN/manga is 99% stolen ideas and premises (I've seen this at least two dozen times before), as of course is 99% of the LN/isekai industry.
Yeah, I realize that practically it's like games, where you can copy the implementation (plot) all you want, but if you copy the art it's a copyright violation, but the LN/isekai industry is such a hive of scum and villainy and theft that I really think it should be legal even to just steal the art as well. Even when the art is 'original', it's almost always a cliched retread anyhow (oh hey, a sexy beast slave loli). Why not just admit that the entire industry is nothing but cliched hacks stealing from about two dozen people with actual talent and just legalize that? |
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JaffaOrange
 Posts: 251 |
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Word for word plagiarism would likely result the same, as well as very obvious idea copying (like if someone decided to make a story about 7 mages summoning 7 heroes from the past to fight in a battle royale over a wish granting device). But the idea of a magical high school or isekai isn't even to cry plagiarism despite how unoriginal everything ends up being.
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sarusa
Posts: 92 |
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No, I don't believe that even exact plot copying like that would get you in trouble, because we've had that happen so many times already (in the villainess and slow life categories in particular). Of course word for word copying would be a copyright issue, but this artist didn't do an exact copy, he just traced. Which is what most LNs are doing for their plots - they're just tracing the plots of better authors. |
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Random Name
Posts: 645 |
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Why couldnt you copy the idea from that example as well? Its not like battle royales, summoning mages, heroes, and the holy grail are original and forever their property. If thats the case should no one ever be able to make stories about some unknown entity (possibly a cute mascot) turning young girls into magical girls? As long as the story is not an exact copy like what was done with the art in this article then I wouldn't see an issue. Also this is my personal opinion as I have no knowledge of copyright laws. Though I think its safe to say copyright laws arnt so strict were you could own a plot or we would not have alot of the works we do. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11417 |
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Dunno about Japan, but in the US ideas aren't copyrightable. Neither are titles, btw. It's how those ideas are expressed that can be protected.
It amazes me how often allegations of tracing keep coming up. How do mangaka still think they won't get caught in the internet age? Is the pressure to meet deadlines so heavy they feel it's worth the risk? I don't get it. |
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Dayraven
Posts: 176 |
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It’d be interesting to see examples to show just how close the tracings were.
Comparing copying in writing vs. art is a bit tricky, but I’d say tracing is closest to paraphrasing sentences, rather than copying at the plot level. And most examples of written plagiarism do include paraphrasing. |
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Sakura-Alchemist
 Posts: 489 |
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Just an FYI this goes by the title "The Love King and His Ornamental Wife" for it's digital English localization on pocket comics.
Also to the people commenting on this, if you look at the source they post some samples of the tracing. It's not just copying a layout, they straight up trace poses/faces. |
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Dayraven
Posts: 176 |
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Thanks — I’d looked at the Nijipoi page, but not far enough down to see the examples in the comment thread. The samples show characters in generic enough stances that I could see how an artist may think they can get away with tracing, but when you see all the little touches of how they’re standing just the same side by side, it’s evident. |
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SHD
Posts: 1752 |
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Psst - it's "kisaki" not "hi". Kōshoku Ō no Kisaki. |
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Kadmos1
Posts: 13570 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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O.K., in the case of this title it is straight-up copying. However, at times the line between that and drawing inspiration is quite blurred. |
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XSp
Posts: 256 |
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People are making a whole ton of confusion in this topic, so let's go...
- I'd like to ask please that people who hates the isekai genre to stop seeing news like these as an opportunity to bash it... it's like, yes, we know you don't like it, how about not commenting on it on every single opportunity that comes up? It gets tiring, and obviously a lot of people enjoy the genre. You are anime fans, you know well enough how annoying it is to hear people mocking anime with the same tired bashing just because they don't like it on every opportunity that comes up. Consider it. Thanks! 
- Copying ideas, having tropes, authors relying in comfortable stereotypes that fans are already used to... all of this is true for entertainment in general. Yes, anime genres are particularly reliant on such things, but the "copying" of ideas is how you establish a culture in general. And Isekai is far from being the only genre that does it. I think critics need to realize that when you say you see x genre as being "all the same", there are people who will see your favorite genres as "all the same" too. Also, isn't it a bit much to ask for 20+ titles in every season to be completely original all the time? These trends in anime is about exploring genres from as many perspectives as possible... some people don't like this, some do, and I'll leave it at that. Everything is a Remix. - I see people talking about the legality of it... no one was arrested, we had a contract cancellation here. I dunno much about how Japanese law works, particularly IP law... most Japanese people also don't, it's extremely confusing. But I don't think it's exactly illegal to trace works of other people... obviously, still considered unethical when admitted like this. I imagine it could end in court if the artwork owner really wanted to, but likely not worth it unless it's something very extreme, like a huge part of the entire work. Just take care not to confuse contract cancellations to crime... very different things. - If you wanna understand why it happens, you gotta trace it back (heh, swear it was non intentional) to how animes are being made nowadays... I think there has been a few ANN articles on it. Low paying, low skill, high pressure, demand for high quality jobs that are always seeking the cheapest labor possible, some studios outsourcing work to other countries where labor is cheaper. That's what the animator job is nowadays, particularly the people who are doing the grunt work, putting the lines on the screen. Not that it couldn't or didn't happen when the industry wasn't operating like sweatshops or something, but you can see how it's much more likely these days. So, it's good that contracts gets cancelled on admission that animators are tracing the work of others, but it would be even better for studios to pay decent enough wages and give animators enough time that would make them not consider doing it in the first place. There is some incredible money sink in this industry which I'm not entirely sure where it happens, but it does. How can an industry that have grown several fold in the past decade still be the same with worst paying jobs in Japanese economy? I've been hearing about conditions for animators worsening for the better part of the entire last decade, and nothing positive has been done about it so far... the industry grew several fold, it's getting far more money these days than it was in the past, but somehow the money never gets to the people working on the floor. I mean, of course, Capitalism, HO! But also, likely because of how rigid some types of workplaces are in Japan... and too many people interested in working at it, but it's just weird when you hear these stories about people working in your favorite animes that are on the top 10 list, how they were just trying to survive with lower than minimum wage payments, in crumbling ancient share houses and whatnot. Anyway, my thoughts on the matter. Feel free to disagree. |
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Dayraven
Posts: 176 |
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There’s a point you’ve mixed up as well — in the second half of your post you begin talking specifically about anime production conditions, but this was a manga. While there are probably related industry pressures, they’re still distinct. |
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XSp
Posts: 256 |
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True dat, my bad. I thought this was going into anime adaptation... Also agreed, there are probably some related pressures, but they are still distinct. I think, and may be mistaken, that manga production works more in a relationship of apprenticeship... not entirely sure how well apprentices are paid though. I've read and watched more stuff on the animation process. Gonna guess it's more varied in a per basis case... some mangakas pay and treat helpers well, some perhaps not so much. And some do it all by themselves. It kinda feels like for whatever reason, the entire anime and manga sector are still a bit unregulated perhaps. |
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